Intermittent Fasting Recomp. Protocols

[BBB]

http://leangains.blogspot.com/

What do you guys think of this?

[Dane]

Hey, I recognize that pic--it's Work from BR (www.bodyrecomposition.com).  He has an extensive thread over there detailing his IF experiment, and it seems well respected by the cynics there.  If you're at all interested in IF, you should head over there and read it. He's had some amazing results.

[Espi]

It's intermittent with 2 t's by the way, makes for easier finding back.

I've talked about it in a few threads already but don't think it's made into 1 separate thread.

[Built]

Fixed (I can't spell either - thanks Espi)

[Dane]

It's intermittent with 2 t's by the way, makes for easier finding back.

Hence just saying "IF", LOL!

[Espi]

I've even joined the forum Performance Menu for following their ideas on Intermittent Fasting, since these guys are more Paleo-oriented. They also have a Paleo-subforum just like they have an IF-subforum. I just don't like it how Work (the guy behind the blog) seemed to insist only HIS way works, viz. it being eating a  f*kload of carbs and keeping things very low-fat. While IF is really a true fast and is very reminiscent of what happens in ketodiets, regardless of whether a ketodiet is low-fat or high-fat.

But there's tons of people who can't tolerate very high carb intake. There's lots of people who are on a low carb intake and who apply IF. Most of the threads on BR.com that focus on IF have people following the high carb routine, but that's not true for every single person and really not where IF is about.

The key article is the one from Michael Eades who mentioned IF in his blog in September 2006.
Fast way to better health  www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=278 

A little while later they started talking about IF and I read up on his blog article and had very good success with just going back to 3 meals/day. As of early May I'm doing only 2 meals/day but it seems that since then my maintenance has dropped about 200-300 kcal. Back in Autumn 2006 I ate even less but maintenance stayed the same.

Most people that do it are raving about energy levels while fasting (that's happening to me as well) and very good fat loss. I'm just not too happy myself on the lowered mtn but still lose very slowly.

But how as they do it, is really varying a lot. Some eat like this every day and do the simplest form = Fast till 5 (there's a free e-book on that) and train after a small pre-WO meal. There's others who do IF every other day (Work). And there's a girl I know who does IF every day and varies between 1 single meal (1000-1200 kcal) at night on rest days and then 2 meals (morning/evening) like I do on training days (2000 kcal or more). She's reported awesome progress.

Considering my high cortisol levels and lowish T3 levels, I'm guessing that this body doesn't do well with too long fasts. I have eaten like that for most of my life and underate too much. So much so that my body temp would be too low and I never sweated.
So I'll probably stop the true Ramandanesk-IF but start 'cheating' with a few pieces of fruit in between breakfast and dinner  to keep liver glycogen levels more stable and prevent gluconeogenesis. I just seem to drop a ton of fluids now and I don't know whether it's LBM or just less inflammation = less water retention also because of better avoidance of allergen foods.

[BBB]

Thanks for the information Espi.

The reason that I'm interested in this are many:
1) I like to work all day and having to cooks and eat ever 3-4 hours is kind of a pain.  Yeah, yeah, we all make sacrifices.  I know.  I've done this on and off for over 5 years now.  Frankly, I'm a little sick of it.  Just having to worry about food in the evening, around my workouts is appealing.
2) I'm sick of being hungry all the time when I diet.
3) My energy is low a lot of the time during the day.
4) In the past (read when I was a teenager) I didn't eat all day and then ate breakfast and I was far more focused.
5) As a teenager this kind of approach worked for me very well.
6) I like the idea of getting to eat and get really full at night.

hmmmmm....I'll have to do some more reading up on this.

[Espi]

If you're really interested go and read all the threads over at BR.com that deal with IF (search for IF*  in titles only, the asterisk will help, otherwise nothing shows up) and of course intermittent. Perhaps intermitent will help too, as this is the 2nd thread I'm seeing within a month that has it spelt (sp?) as intermitent.

As I said I explicitly joined Performance Menu ( http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/ ) since they have a specific subforum and the guys over there are more focussed on low-carbing than the überlean dudes at BR.com

Like you from my youth on I've been skipping breakfast very often, but since my protein intake was also abysmally low (was even a junkfood & barely-any-veggies  eating vegetarian for a while) it didn't do me much good. SO I was completely flabbergasted upon reading that gasp, IF could be gasp healthy. I've tried fast-till 5 but didn't like feeling cold throughout the day (wasn't doing temp measurements then) and switched to the 'Ramadan'like approach with 2 meals. That may even be too much and I've thrown in a couple of pcs of fruit in between to stop gluconeogensis.

But like I said, a majority of people love it.. it's just totally awesome to only eat 1100 kcal on a given day and feel satiated nonetheless after the evening meal. Not really feeling hungry or lacking energy either.
A minority though totally hates it and has very low energy levels as a result. Just give it a whirl.

[Espi]

No kidding! As I understand it - on work out days you are supposed to eat maintenance + some % and then on non-workout days eat maintenance - some %. I figured I'd try +10-20% on WO days....and I read that I'm supposed to go -50% on Non WO days...which sounded hard at first - but considering how stuffed I am on 1200 calories, I don't think it will be hard at all.

Yes - way better than feeling like I'm starving all day and going to bed hungry.

I figure that if I'm going to starve all day I might as well go to bed full.

Work said that his preferred setup for a cutting IF would be
- work out every other day
- eat 50% of maintenance (kinda PSMF) on rest days
- eat 125% of maintenance on workout days
I can't remember though whether he eats all day long on WO days or has a similar IF-setup.

Most people that do IF do something like the fast till 5, and I guess Work does the same.

As for me, I'm constantly tweaking and have found that 50% of maintenance is too low for me as I tend to overeat too much on the WO-days. I can get down to 60-65% of mtn no problem.

[BBB]

I waited until 4 pm to eat - left my 8 hour eating window from 4pm until 12am.  I plan on keeping this the same every day.

There is no way I'm going to be able to get 125% of maintainence calories down on WO days...I could barely get 110% down last night.  Unless I'm allowed to make a big protein shake with a couple scoops of ice cream in it post workout - it's just not going to happen.  I eat about 450 calories preworkout.  If I eat 110% of maintainence, then post work out I have another 1893 calories of "clean" food to eat from 8 pm until 12pm.  Last night it barely happened.  Actually - the dogs got some of my food.  I just couldn't get it all down.  At 125% of maintainence, I'd have to add another 319 calories to that.  Not going to happen.

I haven't had a non-WO day yet - so I don't know about the -50%.

My schedule is more or less EOD with the weights - except I do have a day where I do HIIT in there (not on a lifting day).  My plan is to go maintainence - 20% on that day.  No way am I going to survive HIIT at -50%.  I won't do that to myself.

Right now this is what my schdule looks like.
Sunday, off -50%
Monday, off -50%
Tuesday, on +10%
Weds, HIIT -20%
Thurs, on +10%
Friday, off -50%
Saturday, on +10%

Will post in this in my gym log as well.

[Dane]

Unless I'm allowed to make a big protein shake with a couple scoops of ice cream in it post workout - it's just not going to happen.

Why wouldn't you be allowed?

If I eat 110% of maintainence, then post work out I have another 1893 calories of "clean" food to eat from 8 pm until 12pm.

What exactly do you mean by "clean", and why is it important to you? IMO, if you're going to do IF and not fuck it up, you're going to need to be sure you can implement a protocol that will get everything you need inside you, no skimping.

[Inatic]

Unless I'm allowed to make a big protein shake with a couple scoops of ice cream in it post workout - it's just not going to happen.

Why wouldn't you be allowed?

If I eat 110% of maintainence, then post work out I have another 1893 calories of "clean" food to eat from 8 pm until 12pm.

What exactly do you mean by "clean", and why is it important to you? IMO, if you're going to do IF and not fuck it up, you're going to need to be sure you can implement a protocol that will get everything you need inside you, no skimping.

dont most people limit fat post work out?

[Dane]

Some do.... you could always use lowfat ice cream, mmmmmmm

[Built]

Only so as not to interfere with the insulin response. I only worry about it for the first post-workout meal.

[Inatic]

Some do.... you could always use lowfat ice cream, mmmmmmm

uh huh! We do that. Was thinking full fat for some reason.

DUH!